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president mandela was a big opponent of educational opportunity. it expanded during his time in office. how did that translate into job creation and economic growth? >> for the first time, one of the issues with apartheid is that there was an entire generation of young people who skipped any kind of education. they came in and totally changed that system and now you have blacks college-educated since the end of apartheid who have joined the workforce and have become productive members of the economy. it's been a huge leap forward. >> there was criticism of mr. mandela from black south because the change was seismic in the country and they expect it seismic change to mean immediate change but that wasn't the case, was it? >> it's a tough proposition. the unemployment rate in 1992 was 40%. expectation was that this miracle had happened and overnight things would improve. things did improve and have improved but they certainly don't happen overnight. >> how has south africa's economy become a source of growth for its neighbors? >> they're lucky to hav
president mandela was a big opponent of educational opportunity. it expanded during his time in office. how did that translate into job creation and economic growth? >> for the first time, one of the issues with apartheid is that there was an entire generation of young people who skipped any kind of education. they came in and totally changed that system and now you have blacks college-educated since the end of apartheid who have joined the workforce and have become productive members of...
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Dec 8, 2013
12/13
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this particular ngo trains young men to be bakers and has succeeded in educating and lacing in decent -- placing in decent jobs dozens of people in similar situations like jonathan. jonathan's a little bit difficult in that he doesn't want to be under anybody's thumb. so it's hard for him if he goes to 8 in the morning and some boss is telling him what to do, you know? and i think there's -- that, in a way, is a stand-in for some of the difficulty in the country in moving on. there was a, you know, understandable call by the liberation movement to make the country ungovernable, to create a generation of people who were so rebellious that this old system could no longer survive. and i think what we're seeing partly in the maturation of things in this south africa is a new generation coming along for which rebellion is not enough. knowing when to rebel and when to build skills in order to construct a new country becomes more, a bigger part of the agenda. >> thank you, doug, and thank you, alex. you know, you were talking a little bit about the,
this particular ngo trains young men to be bakers and has succeeded in educating and lacing in decent -- placing in decent jobs dozens of people in similar situations like jonathan. jonathan's a little bit difficult in that he doesn't want to be under anybody's thumb. so it's hard for him if he goes to 8 in the morning and some boss is telling him what to do, you know? and i think there's -- that, in a way, is a stand-in for some of the difficulty in the country in moving on. there was a, you...
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abject poverty for blacks and restrictions on travel, education and employment. whites enjoyed all of the power and riches in this country. his triable name meant troublemaker so perhaps it was his des atindestiny. he became a leading agitator for change as an attorney. he and the african national congress took up armed struggle. >> will tl are many that feel it is useless for us to continue talking peace and non-violence. >> mandela was a born leader and in 1964 the apartheid government tried him for treason and sought the death penalty. >> i have challenerished the id a democratic and free society. it is an idea for which i hope to live for and to see realized. but my lord, if it needs be, it is an idea for which i am prepared to die. >> mandela was sent to robben i-lend prison and not heard from for nearly 30 years. he was just prisoner number 46664. mandela became a myth, a global symbol for the fight against apartheid. and then in 1990, the south african government, under increasing pressure suddenly yielded. >> mr. nelson mandela will be released. >> it was
abject poverty for blacks and restrictions on travel, education and employment. whites enjoyed all of the power and riches in this country. his triable name meant troublemaker so perhaps it was his des atindestiny. he became a leading agitator for change as an attorney. he and the african national congress took up armed struggle. >> will tl are many that feel it is useless for us to continue talking peace and non-violence. >> mandela was a born leader and in 1964 the apartheid...
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we would like to invest in education in the u.k.. we would like to invest in health. we have projects in all of those areas that are ongoing at the moment. i am hoping even in the next few we will make one or two announcements indicating the scale of the opportunities that we have here in the u.k.. >> nigel, thank you so much for now. as we had to break, the world remembering nelson mandela. south africa's first black president passed away late yesterday and the tributes are pouring in. this to say.ma had >> to the people of south africa, we draw strength from the example of renewal and reconciliation and resilience that you made real. africa at peace with itself. an example to the world. that is the legacy to the nation he loved. ♪ >> nigel wilson is still with us. he is the ceo of one of the uk's biggest companies. talk to us about floods. we were looking at dramatic $ç#p10,000 people still have no electricity today. you said we have learned a lot of lessons from the past. and ourselvesent and numerous others have played a key role in how we deal with floods here
we would like to invest in education in the u.k.. we would like to invest in health. we have projects in all of those areas that are ongoing at the moment. i am hoping even in the next few we will make one or two announcements indicating the scale of the opportunities that we have here in the u.k.. >> nigel, thank you so much for now. as we had to break, the world remembering nelson mandela. south africa's first black president passed away late yesterday and the tributes are pouring in....
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robin island understand stood what sort of man mandela was, respected him, listened to him, were eddie educated by him. that was a powerful message no a young college student about this person who went on to become president of stojakovic. >> any recollection of affect that mandela has had on american politics? >> i think the president will speak to that in just a short time. the question that the first african-american president certainly watched what happened with nelson mandela in stojakovic. it had had.tory it has had an affect on politics here, the anti-apartheid movement, to pass sanctions here in congress, the debate that took place here in the united states over constructive engagement. >> also the withdrawal of u.s. investment dollars to companies that did business with the apartheid regime? >> absolutely. there were some companies facing some very tough decisions at that time. and we have a lot of discussion about sanctions ever since. that is going to be part of nelson mandela's history. the legacy not just in south africa, but in this country as well. >> as far as u.s. politics go,
robin island understand stood what sort of man mandela was, respected him, listened to him, were eddie educated by him. that was a powerful message no a young college student about this person who went on to become president of stojakovic. >> any recollection of affect that mandela has had on american politics? >> i think the president will speak to that in just a short time. the question that the first african-american president certainly watched what happened with nelson mandela...
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now, she rejoices in the change to multiracial education. back then, she was really scared when nelson mandela was freed from prison. will we be able to move around the way we used to? will we be thrown into jail? we started talking and reassured people that this country will work together and there is never going to be a thing like apartheid in south africa. of a handfulories of south africans who lived through the worst of times, there are thousands, possibly millions that have similar stories to tell. -- a handful ofs of of south africans who lived through the worst of times, there are thousands, possibly millions that have similar stories to tell. to see the new free south africa, you just have to look around. in a short reaction while. we will talk a little bit about president obama, bill gates already playing tribute and the u.s. secretary-general. you have just seen that moving piece by james. want to talkle and want to pay tribute and want to recognize what happened to them on that day was changed millions of lives. >> that is absolu
now, she rejoices in the change to multiracial education. back then, she was really scared when nelson mandela was freed from prison. will we be able to move around the way we used to? will we be thrown into jail? we started talking and reassured people that this country will work together and there is never going to be a thing like apartheid in south africa. of a handfulories of south africans who lived through the worst of times, there are thousands, possibly millions that have similar...
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Dec 7, 2013
12/13
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it's not easy for roma children in the czech education system. according to martina, it's not just because their parents don't always look after them roperly. she tls me the state must do more to promote integration. the principal tells me that recently czech education authorities asked them to count the roma children. they want to us judge which children were roma and which were not on the basis of their physical appearance. i didn't react and haven't heard anything since then. education authorities put the scheme on ice because of the criticism it received from many eachers. e year ago, police started a pilot project. roma like elena and carl are being trained as special police officers in an attempt to combat rising crime. the city's ombudsman for minorities helped initiate the project. he believes there will be less friction if the crime rate mong the roma falls. we wanted to defuse the hatred. the roma police officers are helping us. they should get close to the people in their community and help implement law and order. the idea gives the i
it's not easy for roma children in the czech education system. according to martina, it's not just because their parents don't always look after them roperly. she tls me the state must do more to promote integration. the principal tells me that recently czech education authorities asked them to count the roma children. they want to us judge which children were roma and which were not on the basis of their physical appearance. i didn't react and haven't heard anything since then. education...
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Dec 6, 2013
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four it was a song by the specials and a really long it's the popular movements around the world and educate people about it meant so much a a the as i know. in a small little moments you and conspiracy the music that was inspired by inspiring and awesome and other fees be remembered that today as he passed away on thursday evening show nothing very much. look at the internet's and thank you very much for sending us to stick to the prospect that last one is contrived. since i did. i can woohoo rule. all you. use. as you. going to shoot in the zone by it has received the chairman of the agency for combating economic and corruption crimes today in court on the issue to subiaco reported on the department's what progress for the past ten months this year according to the chairman financial police have initiated more than one thousand criminal cases against nine hundred perpetrators of corruption crimes one hundred and twenty of them are officials of the national and regional level. the agency is currently
four it was a song by the specials and a really long it's the popular movements around the world and educate people about it meant so much a a the as i know. in a small little moments you and conspiracy the music that was inspired by inspiring and awesome and other fees be remembered that today as he passed away on thursday evening show nothing very much. look at the internet's and thank you very much for sending us to stick to the prospect that last one is contrived. since i did. i can woohoo...
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abject poverty for blacks and severe restrictions on travel, education and employment. whites enjoyed all of the power and riches in this rich country. mandela's trouble name meant troublemaker, so perhaps it was his destiny. he quickly rose to prominence as a lawyer, founding the country's first black law firm, and leading agitator for change. especially after the terrible sharpville massacre in 1960 when he and the african national congress took up armed struggle. >> there are many people who feel that it is useless and futile for us to continue talking peace and nonviolence against a government who is on this savage path against unarmed and defenseless people. >> reporter: mandela was a born leader. so in 1964 the apartheid government tried him for treason and sought the dead penalty. his opening statement to the court electrified the country. >> i have cherished the ideals of a democratic and free society. it is an idea for which i hope to live for and to see realized. but my lord, if it needs be, it is an idea for which i am prepared to die. >> reporter: mandela wa
abject poverty for blacks and severe restrictions on travel, education and employment. whites enjoyed all of the power and riches in this rich country. mandela's trouble name meant troublemaker, so perhaps it was his destiny. he quickly rose to prominence as a lawyer, founding the country's first black law firm, and leading agitator for change. especially after the terrible sharpville massacre in 1960 when he and the african national congress took up armed struggle. >> there are many...
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Dec 6, 2013
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he would go on to become a lawyer after a rare education in a white supremacist nation that was explicitly ordered around the oppression and degradation of the black majority of its people. mandela co-founded the youth league of the african national progress dedicated to equal rights and overthrowing the system of apartheid, the racial segregation upon which the republic of south africa had been founded. for this activity, the government armed with a vast secret police branded mandela an enemy of the state. mandela was forced into hiding. in a stunning 1961 broadcast, his first televised interview, the 42-year-old activist spoke with itn's brian woodlake. >> i asked him what it was that the africans really wanted. >> the africans require, want the franchise on the basis of one man, one vote. >> do you see africans being able to develop in this country without the europeans being pushed out? >> we have made it very clear in our policy that south africa is a country of many races. that there's room for all the races in this country. >> mandela emerged from hiding and would be tried for treas
he would go on to become a lawyer after a rare education in a white supremacist nation that was explicitly ordered around the oppression and degradation of the black majority of its people. mandela co-founded the youth league of the african national progress dedicated to equal rights and overthrowing the system of apartheid, the racial segregation upon which the republic of south africa had been founded. for this activity, the government armed with a vast secret police branded mandela an enemy...
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there is no attention paid to social affairs like health and education can you imagine we have to sacrifice congolese children who have to die who cannot study because they have to pay for the debt. and the international community talks about generosity now they are talking about cancelling the debt as an act of generosity by controlling the country's resources. that they say debt is used to keep countries with natural resources under control. it is used to control countries in the southern hemisphere both politically and economically. today we've got less than five percent of the world's population living in the united states consuming on.
there is no attention paid to social affairs like health and education can you imagine we have to sacrifice congolese children who have to die who cannot study because they have to pay for the debt. and the international community talks about generosity now they are talking about cancelling the debt as an act of generosity by controlling the country's resources. that they say debt is used to keep countries with natural resources under control. it is used to control countries in the southern...
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Dec 6, 2013
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and compulsory education for a period of at least 9 years. everywhere we must reinculcate the culture of learning and of teaching and make it possible for this culture to thrive. [applause] we must combat such social pathologies as widespread poverty, the break down of family life, crime, alcohol and drug abuse, the abuse of children, women and the elderly and the painful reality of street children. we are giving urgent attention to the long waiting lists for the payment of social grants which have developed in some areas, owing to lack of funds. i am especially pleased that we have a ministry dedicated to the issue of the environment. its work must impact on many aspects of national activity and address the question of the well-being of society as a whole and the preservation of a healthy environmental future even for generation not yet born. as we began this address, we borrowed the words of ingrid jonker to focus on the plight of the children our country. i would now like to say that the government will, as a matter of urgency, attend to t
and compulsory education for a period of at least 9 years. everywhere we must reinculcate the culture of learning and of teaching and make it possible for this culture to thrive. [applause] we must combat such social pathologies as widespread poverty, the break down of family life, crime, alcohol and drug abuse, the abuse of children, women and the elderly and the painful reality of street children. we are giving urgent attention to the long waiting lists for the payment of social grants which...
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he was given that name his first day of school as was very common under the british education system there. his real name is rolala. >> he went to a methodist school and everyone was given english names -- >> which means -- >> which means it's the branch of a tree -- shaking the branch of a tree but the meaning is troublemaker. >> i love that. >> it's so -- >> that was his birth name, troublemaker was extraordinary. >> when i started working with him, i never, ever heard anyone call him nelson. at the same time, he wasn't president yet. i heard people use his clan name modiba. it shows his background and it's paternal and just stuck. so that's -- everybody called him modiba. >> the courage it took in the 50s, the '60s, this regime that attempted to have absolute control. it's hard i think for anybody who didn't live through those times to understand what this took to oppose and ultimately over throw this regime. >> i didn't live it either. the list of not indignities but the appalling facts of separate life were just -- you cannot believe this happened. i mean, you saw it all, whites
he was given that name his first day of school as was very common under the british education system there. his real name is rolala. >> he went to a methodist school and everyone was given english names -- >> which means -- >> which means it's the branch of a tree -- shaking the branch of a tree but the meaning is troublemaker. >> i love that. >> it's so -- >> that was his birth name, troublemaker was extraordinary. >> when i started working with him, i...
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he used his law school experience, his educated man experience. and there's a wonderful quote in his auto biography where he talks about consensus building. and he used his experience watching the tribal council and chiefs. he said the chief works like a shepherd whereupon the others follow not realizing that all along they are being directed from behind. eugene robinson, joy reid, thank you for joining us. >>> chris matthews is up next. >>> tonight we bring to you my interview with president obama. i have covered two great world events in my career. one was the fall of the berlin wall in 1989. the other was the first democratic election in south africa five years later. i was there when the country's black majority voted by the millions, waiting in lines that stretched from one horizon to the other. i saw first hand the devotion to democracy. it was the great legacy of the man who died today. president obama paid tribute to nelson mandela today.
he used his law school experience, his educated man experience. and there's a wonderful quote in his auto biography where he talks about consensus building. and he used his experience watching the tribal council and chiefs. he said the chief works like a shepherd whereupon the others follow not realizing that all along they are being directed from behind. eugene robinson, joy reid, thank you for joining us. >>> chris matthews is up next. >>> tonight we bring to you my...
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there is no attention paid to social affairs like health and education can you imagine if we have to sacrifice congolese children who have to die who cannot study because they have to pay for the debt. and the international community talks about generosity now they are talking about cancelling the debt as an act of generosity by controlling the country's resources. that they say the debt is used to keep countries with natural resources under control. it is used to control countries in the southern hemisphere both politically and economically. today we've got less than five percent of the world's population living in the united states consuming almost thirty percent of the resources and roughly half the world is living in poverty close to starvation are actually starving that's a failure it's not a model it's not something that can be replicated in africa or india or latin america so it's a failed system we know that it's a failed system. like the world bank and the international monetary fund play a crucial role in the entire history of the.
there is no attention paid to social affairs like health and education can you imagine if we have to sacrifice congolese children who have to die who cannot study because they have to pay for the debt. and the international community talks about generosity now they are talking about cancelling the debt as an act of generosity by controlling the country's resources. that they say the debt is used to keep countries with natural resources under control. it is used to control countries in the...
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Dec 10, 2013
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i look up to him as my father", he said, "we must get an education and go to school." my student didn't know what to do, but he pulled out money and said, "i'll contribute to what will help with your education." white south african. watching this man walk out of prison, knowing that he had - he potentially was the puppetmaster to what was to come next for the country. put us on the ground. what was that like? >> i would say it was an amazing moment. but it's a scary moment for a lot of people. >> it's like releasing a terrorist. remember he was classified as a terrorist by the u.s. >> what is he going to do? >> the terrorist is working from prison. i mean, when you talk about the prisoner working out they have some kind of dignity making you scared. that was a different kind of prisoner. somebody who the majority of the county, black and white, when the majority, i'm not just referring to black people. they saw him as a liberator. pockets of society that changed. time to prepare to run away from the country. time to go into the... time to go into the count rip. >> who
i look up to him as my father", he said, "we must get an education and go to school." my student didn't know what to do, but he pulled out money and said, "i'll contribute to what will help with your education." white south african. watching this man walk out of prison, knowing that he had - he potentially was the puppetmaster to what was to come next for the country. put us on the ground. what was that like? >> i would say it was an amazing moment. but it's a...
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we have an issue, what's going to happen in terms of education and labor force? >> the working poor conversation. >> exactly. that is very -- blacks and hispanics are at the epicenter of that along with education. and we're not going to solve this in the next month. every time the rate gets better, a lot of people get angry. either the numbers are gained or their own situation, i've still got $15,000 here, got payments and health care issues and that's the discussion that we'll have next year. >> zachary, we haven't seen you in a while. great having you on. >> we're tracking two winter storms. icy mess in the south and headed east. along with another blast of snow and freezing rain, not far behind. we're just learning the weather has forced cancellation of a big marathon in texas this weekend. we'll get an update from the weather channel. >>> pope francis responds to complaints that he largely ignored the catholic church's child abuse crisis. how the pope is now addressing it. but first -- ♪ >> more on the life of nelson mandela with live pictures outside his f
we have an issue, what's going to happen in terms of education and labor force? >> the working poor conversation. >> exactly. that is very -- blacks and hispanics are at the epicenter of that along with education. and we're not going to solve this in the next month. every time the rate gets better, a lot of people get angry. either the numbers are gained or their own situation, i've still got $15,000 here, got payments and health care issues and that's the discussion that we'll have...
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and charlayne, he talked about education. and they called robin island mandela university. you have this place that is a horror where he was for 27 years, and yet his influence was to make it something positive for the other people. >> for other people like saki and others like him, he insisted they learn. because saki was a young man when he went to prison. some of them were 16, 17 years old. and so rather than see their environment as a prison, he and the other leaders turned it into something that was productive. as saki just said, they had faith and they had hope. but they also had faith that those people running around that prison yard and sometimes playing soccer also had to study their books so that one day they would be able to lead the country as people like saki and some of the others who were there on robin island do it today. >> and while doing it they had hard physical labor. he contracted tuberculosis while he was at robin island. but you mentioned how he made friends with the guards. and the wardens there. he was not an idealist. he was very pragmatic. i mean
and charlayne, he talked about education. and they called robin island mandela university. you have this place that is a horror where he was for 27 years, and yet his influence was to make it something positive for the other people. >> for other people like saki and others like him, he insisted they learn. because saki was a young man when he went to prison. some of them were 16, 17 years old. and so rather than see their environment as a prison, he and the other leaders turned it into...
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supreme court declared that separate educational facilities are inherently unequal, the year before we said separate but equal was dead, they codified it for their nation, the apartness, the apartheid, separate park bench, separate everything. everything assigned to specific races, and the lion's share of everything and the best of everything reserved only for the white minority. black people had no right to vote. people classified as colored, for a while they had a right to represent specifically for white people to represent them. but eventually that was stripped too. only the white minority had the vote. only the white minority was represented in government and only the white minority had any say whatsoever in the affairs of the country. 80% of the country lived entirely segregated and without representation under white rule. 80% of the country. and by 1960, the resistance to apartheid, the demonstrations against it had started to zero in on those passbooks, the papers please laws which made your mere existence criminal if you were challenged by a white person as to what you were do
supreme court declared that separate educational facilities are inherently unequal, the year before we said separate but equal was dead, they codified it for their nation, the apartness, the apartheid, separate park bench, separate everything. everything assigned to specific races, and the lion's share of everything and the best of everything reserved only for the white minority. black people had no right to vote. people classified as colored, for a while they had a right to represent...
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him up in honor today owe it to him to build a permanent partnership between , for the and africans education of our children, for the solution of our problems, for the resolution of our differences, for the elevation of what is best about us all. that is what we owe to nelson and her to amy beal family, and to all of those who have sacrificed. for those 10,000 long days and the shiny example sent the clear understanding that a man who has given up so much of his life can give us that even more important than the sacrificed yesterday is what you are doing with today and what you will do with tomorrow. for that is the thing that always humbles me when i am with nelson mandela, the sense of serenity and peace and engagement in the moment. we so i say to all of you should not waste our day is. we should make more of our days. mr. mandela waited a very long time to actually do something for his people rather than just to be something to keep their hearts and hopes alive. and every day i watch him, that is what he does. so should we. in forgiving those who imprisoned him, he reminded us of the mos
him up in honor today owe it to him to build a permanent partnership between , for the and africans education of our children, for the solution of our problems, for the resolution of our differences, for the elevation of what is best about us all. that is what we owe to nelson and her to amy beal family, and to all of those who have sacrificed. for those 10,000 long days and the shiny example sent the clear understanding that a man who has given up so much of his life can give us that even more...
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we have many ngo whose have agitated and lobbies for the change of education. we are not giving government easy ride, and i thank nelson mandela for that. south africans love democracy, many people died for it. many many people died for it. i think we are effecting the same effect of the recession, over the -- and trying our best. of course, we have other problems, many of them a legacy, but many of them of our own san francisco, but i have such in ordinary people, and we'll use the ballot. and nelson mandela gave us the right to do that, and i have no doubt in the next election, or the one that comes afterwards that democracy will survive in this country. >> tell me something, you have given such good perspective. there was a ruling on somebody -- it was very clear, this person had been in the apparatus of power, policeman fora secret serviceman. and was thought to be guilty of a lot of crimes. nelson mandela came out and said this is a country that respects the rule of law. perhaps you are thinking of is killing of chris americanny. >> >> yeah, that we talked
we have many ngo whose have agitated and lobbies for the change of education. we are not giving government easy ride, and i thank nelson mandela for that. south africans love democracy, many people died for it. many many people died for it. i think we are effecting the same effect of the recession, over the -- and trying our best. of course, we have other problems, many of them a legacy, but many of them of our own san francisco, but i have such in ordinary people, and we'll use the ballot. and...
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year-old university student said had mandela had not made those choices he would not be getting the education he is getting. so many people calling and commenting on how if mandela had not been the man that he was, this country could have very easily ended up like syria or iraq. another policeman we were speaking to this morning saying with nelson mandela's passing he felt he had lost a part of his soul and a part of his body and that he truly hopes moving forward the country and its leaders will remember what it was that this incredible man stood for. john? >> it is so remarkable. arwa damon, thank you. she brings up such a good point. words like legend don't begin to cut when twhen you deal with nelson mandela. when you're in south africa he is more than a leader and more than a legend. he's in the fabric of that nation and some one's sole they carry a piece of him around. >> a very interesting point given what we know is going on in the middle east now the connection she made the country could have ended you up differently if it wasn't for his sacrifices. >> no way inevitable there would n
year-old university student said had mandela had not made those choices he would not be getting the education he is getting. so many people calling and commenting on how if mandela had not been the man that he was, this country could have very easily ended up like syria or iraq. another policeman we were speaking to this morning saying with nelson mandela's passing he felt he had lost a part of his soul and a part of his body and that he truly hopes moving forward the country and its leaders...
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he lived through apartheid and couldn't find a job or get the education he wanted. his only goal was that i could do those things. and with nelson mandela, i could. they feel that gratitude to him and these are very young people today. it's the sense this isn't really even memories, it's the active workings of his message and work he did in his life. it's important for people to feel like this is an ongoing struggle. there's still difficulties in society here today, it's a democratic society now but there's a big gap between rich and poor. people feel they dont want that momentum he started and acted upon to be just words now. want to make sure it lives on in action. people are talking about that. people are coming here with their entire families and friends of various races and they are really making it known how they felt about nelson mandela and how they still feel about them. >> a dynamic slice of history you're going through. a lot planned in terms of memorials. what's on the schedule? >> first of all, this sunday, the president has declared it a national day o
he lived through apartheid and couldn't find a job or get the education he wanted. his only goal was that i could do those things. and with nelson mandela, i could. they feel that gratitude to him and these are very young people today. it's the sense this isn't really even memories, it's the active workings of his message and work he did in his life. it's important for people to feel like this is an ongoing struggle. there's still difficulties in society here today, it's a democratic society...
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the government creates a new system of education. they force classes to be taught in aftrikans. the decision will prove disastrous. >> i was busy in my consulting rooms early morning of june the 16th, 1976. when i heard this hum, like the hum of bees. >> reporter: in the johannesburg township of soweto, students are marching against the new education measures. >> this is illegal. >> reporter: police are sent to quell the protests. they open fire on the students. >> from then on, soweto began to burn. >> reporter: news of the uprising spreads quickly throughout the country, as do other protests and riots. >> south africa was aflame. there was a struggle for liberation, for freedom that this government could not control. >> the soweto uprising of 1976 was a privatal moment in south african history, and mandela realize it had. >> reporter: in prison mandela reads about and is encouraged by the uprising. >> all of the work that he had done for all of these years was actually now bearing fruit, and that there was a revolutionary environment in south africa. >> reporter: outside south
the government creates a new system of education. they force classes to be taught in aftrikans. the decision will prove disastrous. >> i was busy in my consulting rooms early morning of june the 16th, 1976. when i heard this hum, like the hum of bees. >> reporter: in the johannesburg township of soweto, students are marching against the new education measures. >> this is illegal. >> reporter: police are sent to quell the protests. they open fire on the students. >>...
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he was educated. he had many people believing in him. he had a strong family background. and then because he felt such a strong love for south africa and for the people and wanted to make a difference an wanted to change, he was willing to die for his cause. ended up in prison and was going to serve a life sentence. got out and became the president winning the nobel peace prize and now look at this, filling stadiums. making quite a difference. and the impact he made not only in south africa but for all of us that are reporting and many people across the world. sh. >> i think -- i think -- >> go ahead, greg. did we lose greg? well, i want to read some of the comments that i have been reading online. defining symbol, one man can make a difference and change a country. someone else writes known as one of the most peaceful freedom fighters of our time. someone calls him freedom. another father figure. even in complete silence, you can hear his music. now let's go back to sky news and listen to their reporting right now. actually we're being told we're not going to do that. yo
he was educated. he had many people believing in him. he had a strong family background. and then because he felt such a strong love for south africa and for the people and wanted to make a difference an wanted to change, he was willing to die for his cause. ended up in prison and was going to serve a life sentence. got out and became the president winning the nobel peace prize and now look at this, filling stadiums. making quite a difference. and the impact he made not only in south africa but...
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would educate. he was the most educated candidate they ever had to try to move voters to a new place. >> you mentioned the learning. and gay mcdougall, you campaigned to release him from prison. he used the time in prison to be educated as well. >> absolutely. he used it to be educated and educated the other prisoners. he called it the university of robben island. they spent time learning about political development around the world. they decided who they, as a political party and as, you know, activists, wanted to be. the decisionmaking. when they finally emerged, from that prison, they knew exactly the road they wanted to travel. >> and jendayi frazer, he was conscious of his role as educator when he became president and after he left office as well. didn't often hide disappointment in what was going on in south africa and other african nations. >> yes, he certainly was. i think president mandela, what i took from him was the courage of his convictions. he was very clear when he did not agree. he
would educate. he was the most educated candidate they ever had to try to move voters to a new place. >> you mentioned the learning. and gay mcdougall, you campaigned to release him from prison. he used the time in prison to be educated as well. >> absolutely. he used it to be educated and educated the other prisoners. he called it the university of robben island. they spent time learning about political development around the world. they decided who they, as a political party and...
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hayre has participated in african education in east and central africa. that was a very smooth relationship for the two universities and i went there as a result set up an office, howard university, to help put in place collaboration between our university and university at howard. the bottom line of that was that we at howard established what we call the south african research and archive al project to study the anti-apartheid movement in the united states. >> dr. harris, what would you say is the legacy, the dual legacy, of nelson mandela both in south africa and in this country? and i guess i'm asking that specificically because you sort of had a bird's eye view of what he was able to do in the country and what he was able to create by extension, by reaching out to howard university to say we want there to be some role here in what happens with south africa going forward. >> well, we were very excited when he came because everyone knew about him. in response to what you just raised i think a way to put that would be this. of the first four recipients o
hayre has participated in african education in east and central africa. that was a very smooth relationship for the two universities and i went there as a result set up an office, howard university, to help put in place collaboration between our university and university at howard. the bottom line of that was that we at howard established what we call the south african research and archive al project to study the anti-apartheid movement in the united states. >> dr. harris, what would you...
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>> caller: yes, i can, tom. >> what was it like on that not victory tour, but educational tour. what did you feel when you took part in that historic moment? >> caller: i will tell you my heart is full. it was one of the most humbling experiences of my life. to be able to be with someone with the values mandela had about inclusion for all people. it was so inspirational. >> what cities did you go to? >> caller: i was able to work with the democracy of south africa. we were able to pick up mr. mandela and his family. bring them into new york. >> were you able to go to the dedication of the statue on massachusetts avenue? we are showing pictures and people are liking the statue. >> caller: i was at the dedication. it was a privilege to be there with the leaders fighting in south africa, to participate on that unveiling on massachusetts avenue. >> some politics can get small as you know, in the campaign, the day-to-day stuff. this is one of the largest political movements in the history of the world. >> caller: it was inspirational for mandela in south africa and the iconic leader
>> caller: yes, i can, tom. >> what was it like on that not victory tour, but educational tour. what did you feel when you took part in that historic moment? >> caller: i will tell you my heart is full. it was one of the most humbling experiences of my life. to be able to be with someone with the values mandela had about inclusion for all people. it was so inspirational. >> what cities did you go to? >> caller: i was able to work with the democracy of south africa....
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supreme court declared that separate educational facilities are inherently unequal, the year before we said, separate but equal was dead, south africa codified it, explicitly, for their nation. the apartness, the apartheid system of separate schools, separate hospitals, separate beaches, separate buses, separate park benches, separate everything, everything assigned to specific races, and the lion's share of everything, and of course, the best of everything, reserved only for the white minority. black people had no right to vote. people classified as "colored," for a while, they had a right to vote specifically for white people to represent them, but eventually that was stripped too. only the white minority had the vote in the end. only the white minority was represented in government and only the white minority had any say whatsoever of the affairs in the nation. 80% of the country lived entirely segregated and without representation under white rule. 80% of the country. and by 1960, the resistance to apartheid, the demonstrations against it, had started to zero in on those passbooks,
supreme court declared that separate educational facilities are inherently unequal, the year before we said, separate but equal was dead, south africa codified it, explicitly, for their nation. the apartness, the apartheid system of separate schools, separate hospitals, separate beaches, separate buses, separate park benches, separate everything, everything assigned to specific races, and the lion's share of everything, and of course, the best of everything, reserved only for the white...
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is quite authoritarian and from prison, he really ruled the family in terms of you have to get your education. this is the way i want you to behave, and those values were instilled in us, even though he was in prison. >> i remember one of my first trips with him to the states when he was president. he was mobbed by usual. there was a woman that came close to collapse because she was quite emotional and he was very quiet in the car and he was like really reflective and he said darling, did you see how emotional that woman was? i says, i wonder why? and for me, as a daughter that struck me and i thought he's very sincere but it didn't occur to him it does about him his impact on her. >> for as many grandchildren and great grandchildren, the lessons he passed on will be remembered forever. >> he's taught me about patience. he's taught me about wisdom. he's taught us as grandchildren just to be patient and make sure that in whatever you do in life, you make sure that you look at -- you look at him and say all those things are going bad, these -- the outcome can always be great. >> there aren't to
is quite authoritarian and from prison, he really ruled the family in terms of you have to get your education. this is the way i want you to behave, and those values were instilled in us, even though he was in prison. >> i remember one of my first trips with him to the states when he was president. he was mobbed by usual. there was a woman that came close to collapse because she was quite emotional and he was very quiet in the car and he was like really reflective and he said darling, did...
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lasting legacy will be his global reach, his focus on the next generation on the transformative nature of education, his capacity to forgive, his commitment to reconciliation, all incredible lessons that we should adhere to. i believe his legacy will be remembered for generations. >> maybe that legacy could find its way into australian politics if only for a moment. foreign minister, thank you so much for being with us there from by a jenning. we appreciate it. thank you. >> we are just getting news from the united kingdom that the flag at buckingham palace, the official resident of queen elizabeth, ii and union flag will fly at half-staff in memory of nelson mandela, that will occur when queen elizabeth leaves on friday. that's coming into us here at cnn. currently it is flying the queen's flag, when she leaves in a couple hours, i understand when she leaves on friday morning, they will fly the union flag at half-staff. the relationship between nelson mandela and queen elizabeth, ii has been quite do you meanled. he has been referred to herbie her first name. there were no heirs in grace. he calle
lasting legacy will be his global reach, his focus on the next generation on the transformative nature of education, his capacity to forgive, his commitment to reconciliation, all incredible lessons that we should adhere to. i believe his legacy will be remembered for generations. >> maybe that legacy could find its way into australian politics if only for a moment. foreign minister, thank you so much for being with us there from by a jenning. we appreciate it. thank you. >> we are...
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he was in education and a professor. we take you back now to johannesburg to listen to his remarks. >> the founding father of the new south africa would backers of strenuous he was, he led the people of south africa to victory in the fight against apartheid, making historic contribution to the birth of the rainbow nation and laying a solid foundation for the long term growth of his country. >> mr. mandela was the pride of the african people, for all his side, he had strived for the liberation of african nations, having endeavored to move forward africas corporations with the world. he had dedicated his entire life to the development and progress of africa. >> mr. mandela was a household name in china as far as the founding father of relations, he committed himself to china-south africa friendship and cooperation with great passion. the chinese people with will always cherish the memory of his important contribution to friendship and china-africa relations. >> we are deeply saddened by the loss of such a great friend. at
he was in education and a professor. we take you back now to johannesburg to listen to his remarks. >> the founding father of the new south africa would backers of strenuous he was, he led the people of south africa to victory in the fight against apartheid, making historic contribution to the birth of the rainbow nation and laying a solid foundation for the long term growth of his country. >> mr. mandela was the pride of the african people, for all his side, he had strived for the...
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system from those decades of poor education of the black majority. but now they are holding this government accountable. i think that may, again, surprising to me, but that may have accounted for the booing. it's been a lot of publicity about the mansions he has built in his home for his ever expanding family. the zulu culture polygamy is acceptable and he has accepted it -- well, he's accepted it. so you know, that doesn't sit well with people who are living as many of those people -- when i saw that water running through soweto while there is that beautiful complex that i talked about, the house that we were in, lovely house, and many more houses for black people than they have ever had, there was still shacks that were about to be overrun by that water. that almost brings tears to your eyes. >> charlene hunter gault, your unique perspective, thank you very much. we'll continue to talk to you this week as the body of nelson mandela lies in repose, brought to pretoria and burial. thanks, charlene. tens of thousands of south africans, world dignitari
system from those decades of poor education of the black majority. but now they are holding this government accountable. i think that may, again, surprising to me, but that may have accounted for the booing. it's been a lot of publicity about the mansions he has built in his home for his ever expanding family. the zulu culture polygamy is acceptable and he has accepted it -- well, he's accepted it. so you know, that doesn't sit well with people who are living as many of those people -- when i...
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and the issue of education still needs to be tackled. he was very keen on the idea of education. but look, many people will say some of the very important things were not done. and they still have to be finished, but after mandela was released and after those first elections in south africa, so much more of this continent has become democratic. it's not a coincidence. >> christiane, so many world leaders when you talk about the leader of cuba, the united states and europe and african countries, it could not be more diverse. do you think there is a lesson, a takeaway they can come away from mandela? because you have such an incredible diverse group of world leaders who govern differently. >> wouldn't it be great. wouldn't that just be wonderful. there are certainly many leaders out there, many conflicts that could be resolved if a little bit of mandela's forgiveness and inclusion was employed. many long time dictator and authoritarians who make take a lesson out of mandela's playbook. he stepped down after one term. he promised to serve one term and kept that promise. sure, there
and the issue of education still needs to be tackled. he was very keen on the idea of education. but look, many people will say some of the very important things were not done. and they still have to be finished, but after mandela was released and after those first elections in south africa, so much more of this continent has become democratic. it's not a coincidence. >> christiane, so many world leaders when you talk about the leader of cuba, the united states and europe and african...
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she was in fact the minister of education in mozambique. she became head of the commission of the u.n. on women and children in conflict, and she even today is a member of the elders that goes in and helps to mediate conflict around the world. she's a woman of tremendous substance, a diplomate in her own right. in the last few years she stayed closer to home because her husband was failing in his health. i'm hopeful that she will get back on the world stage and, you know, take that, the lessons of nelson mandela of her own experience, life, to help mediate conflicts globally. >> it's important to notice that two powerful black women, bound together for their love of this great man, themselves were able to be kind and gracious and hospitalable to each other and not vish -- hospitable to each other and not viciously opposed to each other. it's an uncommon moment given reality tv. >> even though that was a bitter goes between nelson mandela and winnie at first, he did find a way to forgive her, too, later in life. there's a wonderful story tol
she was in fact the minister of education in mozambique. she became head of the commission of the u.n. on women and children in conflict, and she even today is a member of the elders that goes in and helps to mediate conflict around the world. she's a woman of tremendous substance, a diplomate in her own right. in the last few years she stayed closer to home because her husband was failing in his health. i'm hopeful that she will get back on the world stage and, you know, take that, the lessons...
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abject poverty for blacks and severe restrictions on travel, education and employment. whites enjoyed all of the powers and riches in this rich country. his name meant troublemaker. perhaps it was his destiny, particularly after the massacre in 1960 when he and the african national congress took up armed struggle. >> there are many people who feel it is useless for us to talk about peace and nonviolence against a government who is using savage attacks on unarmed defenseless people. >> reporter: mandela was a born leader. so in 1964 the apartheid government tried him for treason and sought the death penalty. his opening statement to the court electrified the country. >> i have cherished the ideal of a democratic and free society. it is an ideal for which i hope to live for and see realized. but my lord, if it needs be, it is an ideal for which i am prepared to die. >> reporter: mandela was sentenced to life in prison and sent to the notorious robben island prison and he was not heard from for nearly 30 years. and then in 1990, the south african government, under increasi
abject poverty for blacks and severe restrictions on travel, education and employment. whites enjoyed all of the powers and riches in this rich country. his name meant troublemaker. perhaps it was his destiny, particularly after the massacre in 1960 when he and the african national congress took up armed struggle. >> there are many people who feel it is useless for us to talk about peace and nonviolence against a government who is using savage attacks on unarmed defenseless people....
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and the goal of folks in america, especially young people, was to educate, was to mobilize and to get more sanctions, to get corporations doing business in south africa to put pressure on the south african government. clearly it worked, because after years and years of struggle, finally in 1990, we broke the apartheid regime but it was a long and brutal struggle. >> here's a picture, take a look at this. >>> give us the background of that photo. >> mr. mandela came to the understand to attend the clinton inaugural. he was very close for the clinton family. in fact the clintons visited the mandelas early this year and last year, and when secretary of state clinton visited south africa before she left office, but he wanted to participate. he wanted to know more about how we ran campaigns here. he wanted to be part of the celebration, because he had a great deal of respect. and i was with my friend yolanda caraway to escort him to the inaugural ball. he wanted to see the city. >> former president clinton -- tweeted i'll never forget my friend madeiba, and you can see the love there. davi
and the goal of folks in america, especially young people, was to educate, was to mobilize and to get more sanctions, to get corporations doing business in south africa to put pressure on the south african government. clearly it worked, because after years and years of struggle, finally in 1990, we broke the apartheid regime but it was a long and brutal struggle. >> here's a picture, take a look at this. >>> give us the background of that photo. >> mr. mandela came to the...
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she's requiring $15, it sounds like, for higher education. however, the other side is, that cost will be transferred down to the consumer, though. so the parent, the single mom who has two kids also, like mary, i believe she's a single parent, can only afford fast food maybe or mcdonald's or popeye's. so your $3.25 big mac is now $6. >> it's not going to be $6. >> i don't know if it would be wouldn't be the worst thing. >> john? >> i think one of the things that everybody obviously could emphasize with mary. going to high school, i actually -- i helped clean up a burger king and set it up for the next morning and did menial tasks like that in the night shift. i know what it's like to work like that. but i think one of the dichotomies we see right now is that we have people collecting 99 weeks of unemployment. some of them in florida, let's say, where the unemployment -- the unemployment benefit is only $13 an hour equivalent. so you have people on unemployment not working for 99 weeks getting paid $13 in florida. yet we have a lady who wants
she's requiring $15, it sounds like, for higher education. however, the other side is, that cost will be transferred down to the consumer, though. so the parent, the single mom who has two kids also, like mary, i believe she's a single parent, can only afford fast food maybe or mcdonald's or popeye's. so your $3.25 big mac is now $6. >> it's not going to be $6. >> i don't know if it would be wouldn't be the worst thing. >> john? >> i think one of the things that...
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our deal puts jobs and economic growth first by rolling back sequestration, harmful cuts to education and defense jobs for the next two years. now i know there were some people who thought these cuts should continue, but i'm glad that we increased these key domestic investments and that we averted the next round to military programs and defense jobs in our country. this deal builds on the reduction we have done since 2011 and continues the precedent we set in the fiscal cliff deal that sequestration shouldn't be replaced with spending cuts alone. this bipartisan deal will help millions of americans who are wondering if they were going to keep paying the price for d.c. dysfunction. from the workers at our military bases and construction basis who were furloughed or laid off, to the kids who lost their slots in head start programs to the seniors wondering if they were going to have meals on wheels, to the families who were praying for halted medical programs to get back to a cure. because of this deal, the budget can stop lurching from crisis to crisis. this deal allows congressional co
our deal puts jobs and economic growth first by rolling back sequestration, harmful cuts to education and defense jobs for the next two years. now i know there were some people who thought these cuts should continue, but i'm glad that we increased these key domestic investments and that we averted the next round to military programs and defense jobs in our country. this deal builds on the reduction we have done since 2011 and continues the precedent we set in the fiscal cliff deal that...
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this will help local school districts educate military children. the bill will extend existing military land withdrawals in a number of places that would otherwise expire, leaving the military without critical testing and training capabilities. the bill includes a new land withdrawal to enable the marine corps to expand its training area at 29 palms. the bill provides needed funding authority for the destruction of syrian chemical weapons stockpiles and for efforts of the jordanian armed forces to secure that country's border with skier syria. earlier today, general martin dempsey, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, wrote a whrer to the leadership of the senate and the house of representatives in which he strongly urges completion of action on the national defense authorization act this year. general dempsey's letter provides a long list of essential authorities that will lapse if this bill is not enacted. the -- and this is one just -- one paragraph that of his bill l -- his letter. the authorities are crit l cal to the nation's defense an
this will help local school districts educate military children. the bill will extend existing military land withdrawals in a number of places that would otherwise expire, leaving the military without critical testing and training capabilities. the bill includes a new land withdrawal to enable the marine corps to expand its training area at 29 palms. the bill provides needed funding authority for the destruction of syrian chemical weapons stockpiles and for efforts of the jordanian armed forces...
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except to say that we regard the provision of jobs, of housing, the free quality education as being at the top of our list. >> bernie, did you realize how powerful, how important, what a historic figure he was when you sat down with him in 1994? >> no, i did not. i had an appreciation but i did not realize the intensity and the gravity of his presence not only as a human being but as a leader. one word sticks out in my mind about nelson mandela and what he was striving for. the word is very simply "parity." parity. he wanted parity for all south africans. and he put his nation on the road to that parity. he knew it wouldn't happen in his lifetime. but his contribution was seminal. >> if anyone had justification for revenge and bitterness, 27 years he spent in prison in awful awful conditions, what 17 years on robben island. and i saw that little cell there. and yet he said, you know what, south africa needs everyone. we need a new south africa, a democratic south africa where everyone can be free and participate in a democracy. >> indeed, wolf. and we just remember, when you have almos
except to say that we regard the provision of jobs, of housing, the free quality education as being at the top of our list. >> bernie, did you realize how powerful, how important, what a historic figure he was when you sat down with him in 1994? >> no, i did not. i had an appreciation but i did not realize the intensity and the gravity of his presence not only as a human being but as a leader. one word sticks out in my mind about nelson mandela and what he was striving for. the word...
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i am a college-educated woman. my children will be college-educated. they will live their dreams because nelson mandela changed this country. >> and you just knew. there will be so many families to have those stories to share. >> i hope a lot of people woke up to watch in this morning. >>> we're going to go to ginger zee. the east coast storm having a ripple effect coast to coast. >> ground stops, delays at the major hubs in new york city. the fat flakes are flying. we have sleet mixed in. it will be a rough commute for a lot of folks. how much will fall? what do you have to worry about? if you're coming into the mid-atlantic or the northeast, an afternoon, through the early afternoon problem. look what comes behind it. and what everybody is dealing with, west coast. the cold. you have felt it for almost a week now. we'll see some moderating. look at sacramento, mid to upper 20s. the freeze watches and warnings throughout parts of the southwe southwest. palm springs in the mid 30s. las vegas, 20s. reno, you're waking up to 4. it will feel cooler than t
i am a college-educated woman. my children will be college-educated. they will live their dreams because nelson mandela changed this country. >> and you just knew. there will be so many families to have those stories to share. >> i hope a lot of people woke up to watch in this morning. >>> we're going to go to ginger zee. the east coast storm having a ripple effect coast to coast. >> ground stops, delays at the major hubs in new york city. the fat flakes are flying....
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new economic initiatives like the minimum wage, like increasing investments and infrastructure and education, so this gives him a little fuel to do that as the rollout to obama care has been so rocky. this is certainly something the white house is welcoming here. >> we'll check back. brianna keilar live at the white house this morning. >>> and now let's head back to washington and bring in wolf blitzer for more on our special coverage of the passing of nelson mandela. wolf, take it away. >> to the world, nelson mandela was a freedom fighting revolutionary who later rose to be a statesman and influenced others as aan icon and ambassador of peace. in his native south africa he was lovingly known as madiba, a symbol his countrymen had for their president. jacob zuma yesterday spoke about his legacy. >> we'll always love madiba for teaching us that it is possible to overcome hatred and anger in order to build a new nation and a new society. >> president zuma also announced funeral plans for nelson mandela, including a national day of prayer and reflection this sunday, an open air memorial servic
new economic initiatives like the minimum wage, like increasing investments and infrastructure and education, so this gives him a little fuel to do that as the rollout to obama care has been so rocky. this is certainly something the white house is welcoming here. >> we'll check back. brianna keilar live at the white house this morning. >>> and now let's head back to washington and bring in wolf blitzer for more on our special coverage of the passing of nelson mandela. wolf, take...
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or maybe just have a high school education. if you have a college degree, we're seeing job growth in professional and business services, certainly in engineering which continues to be kind of a real driver of jobs, health care is net hire job creator over the last several years and hires nurses and other technicians. there are good jobs being created. when you look at this total number, say, 200,000-plus this month, certainly a good percentage of them were in the lower wage category. but then we want -- those people who are out of work having the hardest time, need those jobs, too. >> we saw the fight over raising the minimum wage heat up this week. you wrote an interesting piece about the rise of income inequality. what would raising the minimum wage do in this country to close the income gap? do we even know? >> first of all, i'm all in favor of having this discussion about wages and equality. the minimum wage, only 5% of the entire workforce gets paid at the minimum wage or below. 20 states have a state minimum wage signific
or maybe just have a high school education. if you have a college degree, we're seeing job growth in professional and business services, certainly in engineering which continues to be kind of a real driver of jobs, health care is net hire job creator over the last several years and hires nurses and other technicians. there are good jobs being created. when you look at this total number, say, 200,000-plus this month, certainly a good percentage of them were in the lower wage category. but then...
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republicans who block investments in things like early education and immigration reform, today we educate the world's top talent in our colleges and then send them back to their home countries are harming our future. conservatives need to think differently about the near term safety nets we need to ease some people through this period and liberals need to think more seriously about how we can incentivize and unleash risk takers to start new companies that create growth, wealth and good jobs. to have more employees we need more employers. just redividing a slow growing pie will not sustain the american dream. >> harold? >> tom, harold ford, good morning. how do we incentivize congress to understand these numbers. joe and mika had arne on talking about testing and ensuring our kids can compete with kids around the globe. how do we get policymakers and particularly those in washington to grasp what you write about not only this time but often? >> harold, i'm a big believer this is a big problem. we've gotten into it over a long period of time. and it takes a comprehensive solution. so, the w
republicans who block investments in things like early education and immigration reform, today we educate the world's top talent in our colleges and then send them back to their home countries are harming our future. conservatives need to think differently about the near term safety nets we need to ease some people through this period and liberals need to think more seriously about how we can incentivize and unleash risk takers to start new companies that create growth, wealth and good jobs. to...
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he had access to education. he could have stayed in his community, but he saw -- he started to see himself as an african, not just as a hoso, he started to see himself and see how the white regime was dividing people by stressing ethnic differences and he was able to overcome that. i think that's such an extraordinary thing. >> it's true. it's true. he was a courageous human being and full of the idea that he was on a journey, and he had something to do, he had a place to be, and it's fabulous to realize that there's an old spiritual, old gospel song which is i'm on my journey now, mount zion, on my journey now, mount zion, and i wouldn't take nothing, mount zion, from my journey. mount zion. he was on the journey and he knew it and he had something to do. and this is what each of us has, if we have enough courage, we can say i'm on a journey, i have a charge to keep. >> you were living in cairo with your husband, south african freedom fighter when you first met nelson mandela. i understand your husband and mand
he had access to education. he could have stayed in his community, but he saw -- he started to see himself as an african, not just as a hoso, he started to see himself and see how the white regime was dividing people by stressing ethnic differences and he was able to overcome that. i think that's such an extraordinary thing. >> it's true. it's true. he was a courageous human being and full of the idea that he was on a journey, and he had something to do, he had a place to be, and it's...